Assimilation and Atheism 101

By Wayne Brown
Interesting discussion between leading atheists 
Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, Ayaan Hirsi Ali

A wide-ranging discussion of subtle issues with atheism, including an unusually subtle treatment of why people accept religion - the process of assimilation and the difficulty in freeing people from assimilation.

  • Risks associated with criticizing Islam;
  • When to take the gloves off - being polite to people who have been indoctrinated;
  • Vetting the authorities;
  • How liberal kids get assimilated to radical Islam;
  • Sam Harris speaks eloquently about the powerful meme of Islam;
  • Dawkins doesn't understand that everyone doesn't think like he does;
  • Dennett refers to the "narrative arc" in TV shows and movies, which primes a person for assimilation;
  • The appeal of Islam to intelligent, liberal women;
  • Ali calls Islam a form of madness;
    • Dennett compares crime committed for religious reasons with drunk driving
    • Harris points out that religious delusion is excluded in DSM 
  • Are religious people just lazy;
  • Dennett makes the important point that religious people "just go along", they are not intellectuals;
  • Harris makes the point that theologians are not lazy. Making sense of religion is hard work;
  • Dawkins is unsympathetic - regards believers has having their ears stopped up;
  • Harris points out that crazy Christians understand crazy Muslims better than atheists do. Atheists don't take belief seriously;
  • Ali points out realization of individual identity as a core challenge to Islam. "Submission to Allah" is basically surrender of individuality;
    • Dawkins makes a similar point about the depth and scope of the "bossiness" of religion, far beyond reason. Why do religions make things so hard for believers?
  • Dennett points out the parallel between religious hokum and "viral" memes - "infectious stupidity". 
    • Dawkins- quotes Chesterton- when people stop believing in religion, they don't believe in nothing - they believe in anything;
  • Harris makes the point that, for example, there is nothing in Science to fill the "Santa Clause Hole";
The discussion is continued without Ayann, adding Christopher Hitchens
  • doubt - the idea that doubts are "normal";
  • faith - nice discussion of how belief without evidence becomes evidence and a barrier to further evidence;
  • Dennett calls it all a "bag of tricks" - cons could be used to sustain anything;
  • Harris points out how easy it is for Christians to spot the "bag of tricks" in other religions;
  • Theology is like stamp collecting - theologians "take in each other's laundry";
  • Dawkins again displays his lack of appreciation of myth;
  • Dennett confusing myth with metaphor;
  • Harris points out the pride of religious people when they maintain their faith in spite of the "hammer blows" that destroy all its premises;
  • Dennett complains that the professionals "know better" but the problem with the flock is that they have ceded authority to the professionals. The buck stops with the professionals. The pastor's job is to know what he's talking about;
  • How is scientific authority different from religious authority? Competitiveness, structure of the discipline, predictions, puzzles vs. mysteries, glorification of "mystery";
  • giving up the demand for intuitive understanding; 
  • religious moves are not allowed in debates. For example, if you say this is just what I believe, you disqualify yourself from the debate;
  • Harris: "Is there a single sentence in the Bible or Koran that shows it's not a work of a human author?" If these are not "magic books", Christianity and Islam collapse.

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